#25 Trial and Pivot

[00:00:09] Speaker A: Welcome to the guide to live. It's Tuesday, February 27, 2024, and this is your weekly hangout to join us and our guests to talk about live streaming with people who really know what it's like. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Because let's face it, no one really knows what you're talking about if you say you're a live creator. [00:00:25] Speaker A: But we do. So I'm Tara, and across from me is my co host, Ben. And together with our guests, we make up the guide to live team. [00:00:33] Speaker B: No guests this week. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Again, no two in a. We. What? What's going on today? [00:00:39] Speaker B: So today we are talking about trial and pivot. [00:00:43] Speaker A: Trial and pivot. [00:00:44] Speaker B: If you've hung out with us at all over the last two years, we talk about trial and pivot. [00:00:49] Speaker A: It's very important as a live streamer, super duper important. [00:00:53] Speaker B: So this is important for new streamers, particularly? I was going to say particularly, but go on and say it's also really important for established streamers as well. It's important in different ways. It's kind of ever everyone. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it is in different ways. Exactly what you said. And we'll get into that a little bit more later on. So, to me, if you want to talk about what technically a pivot is, it's when you're facing one direction and you turn and face another direction. So it's like a change of direction. So metaphorically, it's like you can change directions as an artist all the time or as a creator. So that's what pivoting is very important. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Just changing direction. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Changing direction in certain things, yeah. [00:01:34] Speaker B: So in a live streaming setting. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:37] Speaker B: What does that mean for you? [00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it could be as little as, like changing literally the frame of what it looks like of me in the frame of am I closer to the camera or am I further away, or is there set different? [00:01:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's really important. So when we say trial and pivot, it could mean content. You could pivot from being a juggler to a opera singer. That's a pivot, but very big, very drastic one. [00:02:03] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:04] Speaker B: Like the pivot really, that we're talking about is what Tara just described, a small thing in our world, small things, changing the look. Could be changing the time or the schedule, the production or whatever. Or the content. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah. It could be going with the themes of what's going on in the zeitgeist as far as, like, seasonal, seasonally. [00:02:24] Speaker B: And then you find something that works and then you pivot to it. [00:02:28] Speaker A: That's probably pivot towards what works. Do that as long as it works. And constantly, if you're like me, I'm constantly trying to upgrade or figuring out ways of improving what I'm already doing. And then sometimes you do that so much that it completely changes it to the point where it stops working. And if that happens, you repeat the process again. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Finding failure in trialing and pivoting is a good thing, right? You can't succeed unless you fail. I'm a big believer of that. In lots of walks of life, sometimes. [00:03:01] Speaker A: You have to pivot midstream. The minute that you start seeing the numbers of viewers drop, you start pivoting to calls to action again, like getting the engagement up. Hey, everybody, where is everyone viewing from right now? I need to know. Drop a flag of the country or give me the state that you're in right now. Let me know where you're viewing from. And then getting engaged again. [00:03:22] Speaker B: That's a pivot as well, within stream. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Then you're pivoting towards the engagement there. [00:03:26] Speaker B: And now to complicate matters more, and we're going to break this down as we go, I think, because there's lots of angles to look at it. But what Tara's describing there is like an in stream pivot. And you might be pivoting to something that you've already tested, that you know works, or you might be pivoting to something you've never tried before. You're experimenting and there's some really good guidance on what's good amounts to do. But we'll talk about why first and then get into. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Because. Yeah, let's talk about the why. A lot of us need to know. [00:04:00] Speaker B: The why, what a pivot is. Yeah, you're right. Why do we do it? [00:04:04] Speaker A: Why? This is the kicker. This is the reason I like to talk about. But I'm going to let you. I'm going to let you because I tend to take over. [00:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah. No, you don't. You never take over. Sometimes I feel like I take over. [00:04:18] Speaker A: No, maybe we both like to talk. That's our problem. That's why we do a podcast. [00:04:22] Speaker B: We're going to have to put this, run it through an AI, see who talks the most, who says the most words. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Gosh, yes. That might be you. Although I talk really quickly. [00:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah. So why do you trial and pivot? What is the benefit of that? So there's a skill like driving where you learn how to drive. [00:04:45] Speaker A: We all learn. We all take driver's ed. [00:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Unless you live in the country. [00:04:49] Speaker B: You can drive, you get a license to do it, but you don't try people are better or worse drivers for whatever. I think everyone's probably about the same. [00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah, really, I'm pretty bad. It's probably because I learned in the country, because I learned on a farm. [00:05:04] Speaker B: But you're not constantly trying to come up with new ways to drive. You might try new routes to get places. You're not like, oh, I'm just going to try driving with my head looking out the window. [00:05:14] Speaker A: I'm going to use my feet to steer the drive, to steer the car. [00:05:18] Speaker B: Now, maybe it's wet, and that's because there's like a set of rules of how it works, and it's designed to. [00:05:24] Speaker A: Work a certain way and you adhere to those rules. Right, because it works that way. [00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah, broadly speaking. But in the live streaming world, why you trial is for your own expression and research. You want to see what being. Yeah, I think it's more like that just to change and keep things fresh for yourself. [00:05:44] Speaker A: I know if I do the same thing over and over again, I'm like, oh, God, no, I need change. It's healthy to have some change and to do things differently every now and then. [00:05:53] Speaker B: But the other why, and this is a big one for us in live streaming, is you're doing this as a business. So if you use the scarf knitting analogy, you might start off and you realize you've got a market there immediately. [00:06:08] Speaker A: And you're making one product. Right. You're making these great products. [00:06:12] Speaker B: Actually, let's go back a step. You start knitting and maybe you knit a sweatshirt, no one really cares. Then you knit some gloves. No one really cares. And then you'd knit this cool scarf, for whatever reason hits at that moment. [00:06:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you get mad, orders, presales. [00:06:30] Speaker B: You're the scarf person. But you're like, I'm the knitting person, too. [00:06:34] Speaker A: I want to knit other things. [00:06:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:36] Speaker A: And this isn't, but your audience wants scarves right now. [00:06:39] Speaker B: But as a business, you probably do want to try other stuff out. And this isn't exclusive to knitting businesses or live streaming. What's the big ICE cream brand? [00:06:48] Speaker A: Oh, Ben and Jerry's. It's one of them. [00:06:50] Speaker B: They have their classics, but they are doing research and development and changing their ICE creams up over here because tastes. [00:06:56] Speaker A: Change, tastes change, markets change, generations change, like, things change over time. The only thing constant is change. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And as the business, so we're talking about you live streaming as a business. Like, businesses trial things as part of their time. So as a part of their time, we like to think of it as 70 30. So you do 70% of the time. When you're established, you do 70% of your time as like the hits, whatever that is, stuff that, you know, engages people the most. [00:07:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Your most engaging content or your content that is geared most to getting followers, if that's what your goal is on that particular stream. Right. So this is if you're established and then 30% on experimenting. [00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:46] Speaker B: But then what about new people? [00:07:49] Speaker A: Yes. What about new people? Yeah. You basically start off the same way you do. You try what you're good at, what you love doing, you put it out there, you get your engagement up, and if you find that the engagement isn't as good as you think it should be, then you tweak it, you change it, you do something different. And then until you find the thing that does, and then you do that for a while, until you either it stops working or you yourself are not fulfilled doing it anymore. And if you don't feel like you're doing it, then change it. That's another time to pivot. [00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And remember all of these little things, it might be that you love the content that you do and it's your thing. Right. Not everything has to be trialed and pivoted. No. If you're a great character actor or you have a whole style, let's say weird Paul, he comes to mind because he shared an amazing clip from him being on the local news on National Retro day. Yes, National Retro day, if you don't know. Weird Paul, huge fans here. Weird Paul is weird Paul. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:55] Speaker B: He's not trialing, pivoting with a known thing. [00:08:58] Speaker A: He has been doing basically the same thing since he was a kid. [00:09:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:04] Speaker A: But over the course of the time, certain things have changed. He has changed medium. He still likes to do his VHS and then converts them digitally. But the thing is, he is adapting, he's pivoting, he's changing. Especially with TikTok platform, that was a whole new ballgame. [00:09:23] Speaker B: But he's not changing his core essence of who he is or what his kind of character is, or he's not changing content changed. So it's more smaller things, little teeny things. And that's where it's maybe the structure of the content or maybe the timing of it, or maybe the way things are lit or things like that. Like we were saying, it happens with all kind of business with businesses. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Think about McDonald's. How many of you all here know about the McRib sandwich? Hello. It's not part of the 70% of their business. No, that is an experimental, but it's a favorite that they bring around every so often. They trial it every so often to bring it back to see how well it does. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and it does two things. Right. They're trialing, but then it's like fun. What is the new thing? What's the new thing on the menu here? That's part of what keeps you coming back stuff. Right? [00:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:16] Speaker B: The small changes as well as the creature comforts. It's 70 30. Yeah. [00:10:20] Speaker A: But I think the McRib is a standalone, though, because this is also another type of content or thing that you can do where it's something that you trialed that did well. Your really core fans really love it, but you don't want to take it away forever. You want to bring it back every so often to let them know you still love them. And who knows? The market may have a taste for it all of a sudden, then it takes over the Big Mac. You never know. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So these are all still whys, and we're comparing it to real world examples of why businesses or content is tweaked and trialed. And then also that when you're very first starting out, probably doing more trials, you want to be seeing what things work depending on the levers that you want to pull. But we should talk a little bit about what is happening in the landscape on live. The landscape around us is constantly changing. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Constantly. It's like a sea. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:18] Speaker A: It's almost like we are at sea. And the viewers are just in different jet streams and currents, and they're just all going around like a big bowl of soup. And when you put your ladle in to get some soup out, it's like that's when you go streaming. You don't know what you're going to get at that time because it's always changing. [00:11:35] Speaker B: Let's talk about what is happening in the landscape, which would require this testing and variation, because in theory, if everything was static, you would just find a thing that worked and keep doing that. Like driving. It's like, this is how driving works. I'll just keep doing this as best as I can. And some of people are better and worse than it, I guess. It's like actually using this driving analogy, if it was just all a big desert and everyone had to get to where they were going to or to the other side, and it's like there's lots of different ways to get over there. There's no rules at that. [00:12:13] Speaker A: I just think, Mad Max, when you say that XP on the thunder. They made a whole movie about a couple of movies. More than a couple, but yes. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Who's chasing who? [00:12:30] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:12:31] Speaker B: Come on. There's a big car chase, isn't it? [00:12:34] Speaker A: There's lots of car chases in the. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Desert, but actually, isn't that what Mad Max is? It's basically one extended car chase through the desert, cut up from different angles. [00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah, they're looking for resources, water. That's a big one. [00:12:47] Speaker B: So we're talking about different ways you can get across the sandy desert. Loads of them. But the sands are always changing. So the sands are like the trends, the themes, just the seasons of life. [00:13:00] Speaker A: It's constantly changing. It's perfect. Dunes come and go. If you've ever been in a desert or you know anything about a desert. [00:13:06] Speaker B: You'Ve been hanging out in a desert. [00:13:08] Speaker A: Lost in the desert, really quickly if you don't, because it changes the landscape, literally changes in front of you. [00:13:14] Speaker B: That is exactly what's happening live on this useful podcast. We're now using knitting as a hot button analogy, and you also have to know what it feels like to have been in a desert. [00:13:28] Speaker A: You can imagine what it's like. [00:13:29] Speaker B: Please write into us and tell us if you have knitted in a desert. [00:13:34] Speaker A: That would be amazing. [00:13:35] Speaker B: That would be cool. If you have proof of yourself knitting in a desert, we'll send you some. [00:13:40] Speaker A: Merch if you can prove it. No photoshopping. We know. All right. We're talking about the landscape changing, and that's why it's important, because people get bored. People get bored. People get bored or they find something else that they like better. [00:13:57] Speaker B: And it's not that we want to be really clear. It's not that they're getting bored with you. [00:14:01] Speaker A: No. [00:14:02] Speaker B: It might be that there's just a lot of content about socks right now. [00:14:07] Speaker A: And it's flooding the market because that's. [00:14:10] Speaker B: What content socks, that's what happens. Right? Things get popular, they bubble up. [00:14:14] Speaker A: What happens when the market's flooded? If you're a business person and you want to stand out, you change it up and you do something different that stands out. So everyone's, oh, wow, this is different. I'm going to try this now. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's partly driven by how the algorithm works. ASMR is a good example. It grows and then contracts and grows and contracts. [00:14:37] Speaker A: They're constantly coming up with new triggers. They're inventing new triggers all the time, and they'll get very popular until they're not popular anymore because everyone's doing them everyone copies everybody, or they take it and they make it their own, and then all of a sudden everyone's doing it. Okay, now what? So then you have to come up with a new trigger. That's a pivot. Like you come up with a new trigger. [00:14:57] Speaker B: It's almost like as things become successful and more popular in general, which is good for you and your type of content, the more people see it, the more people are interested in it, the more it's going out to more people. So the more people then think, I'll try that too. [00:15:11] Speaker A: But then eventually everyone settles back down, and then the one that stands out is the new attention is drawn to that. And then that is where you start building again and you're developing again. And then all of a sudden it's okay. Now that starts doing well, and then the market gets flooded again because it's like a cycle. Then that is why it is so important to trial and pivot. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Yeah, because that really covers your losses on the down ebbs of it. And like we're saying there will be ebbs and flows in your core 70% of content. But you need to keep refreshing that you just did the same thing over and over again every single day. It'll just slowly dwindle. Not because what you're doing isn't good, it's still good. It's just not generating the same initial attention that it did. Because the seas around you are changing. So you can ride that out and it'll ebb and flow a little. But you could also be replacing it with this 30% of stuff that you're trying. [00:16:11] Speaker A: 30%, yeah. That is where you could be putting in new things. And let's talk about that. How do you do that? How do you change what you're used to doing, especially if you're new and you've never done anything else or tried. [00:16:24] Speaker B: To even change is so hard in general. [00:16:27] Speaker A: So how do you trial something new and then pivot towards that when it's working? And how do you know it's working or if it's working? [00:16:37] Speaker B: It's like, almost like a way of thinking, isn't it? It's like being mindful about what you're doing. Do you want to play a game? Okay, I'll give you a type of creator. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:47] Speaker B: And you're going to give me two examples of how you might pivot within your stream. [00:16:52] Speaker A: If I was that creator. [00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:54] Speaker B: And this is whether you're new or established. [00:16:56] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Some things that you would try and bear in mind. The list is endless. Okay, so here we go. Let's start with a match. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Okay. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Match battle. [00:17:04] Speaker A: All right. [00:17:05] Speaker B: Creator. [00:17:05] Speaker A: Match battle. Creator. So if I was a match battle creator, I'm going to pivot on a content thing here. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Okay. [00:17:12] Speaker A: If I did matches, most of the time, I think I would focus on building up narrative and lore to enhance that. And I think that I would maybe try lifestyle streams a little bit more. Try those out first and see how it goes. Like maybe cooking, like doing meals, like certain meals with themes of certain things. Like nuggies. Like maybe make some chicken nuggets, something fun. Or get ready with me. Things like that. Or maybe go outdoors and do something different. Yeah. [00:17:42] Speaker B: So you would trial in that example. Each of those is a subcategory of a lifestyle stream, so you could trial different ones because not all of them are necessarily going to vibe with your. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Exactly. You're starting it out with just doing one and then talking about it during your other streams. So you build up the hype a little bit. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Or that could be if you stream for 3 hours, you could try 1 hour of something different every now and again here. [00:18:05] Speaker A: What about you? Can you tell me something? What's something that you could do if. [00:18:09] Speaker B: You'Ve never done it? [00:18:10] Speaker A: Match creator. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Right. Good at holding people's attention. Good at organizing a crowd of people. Do some kind of trivia night. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Oh, that's fun. [00:18:19] Speaker B: Make your own game show. [00:18:20] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that is fun. [00:18:22] Speaker B: And commit to it as well. When we say trial this, it isn't just do it one time. It's okay. I'm going to do this every Thursday for the next month. [00:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it makes sense though, because the match communities, they like to compete and they like to play games. So that makes perfect sense. [00:18:36] Speaker B: And now you're trialing different things as well. Okay, we're going to do it with the picture inbuilt thing. I'm going to come up with some kind of game structure and do it myself. And then when it does work, add it into the mix. That's the point of trialing. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Then it becomes more. Then maybe do it more often. Like maybe do it twice a week instead of once a week. Yeah. [00:18:53] Speaker B: All right. You give a type of what about. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Musical or musician style? Music based. [00:19:00] Speaker B: Cool. What should we call this game? [00:19:02] Speaker A: I don't know how to pivot. [00:19:05] Speaker B: This whole podcast is for people who've got no one else to talk to about live streaming because no one, no. [00:19:11] Speaker A: One in the real world knows no very seriously. Still to this day, everybody says, can you help me with my videos? Like yeah, I can. [00:19:19] Speaker B: So this is super insider game. [00:19:22] Speaker A: You know how they have shoots and ladders? How about trials and pivots? [00:19:25] Speaker B: Oh, that's nice. [00:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah, let's do that. Okay. We're playing trials and pivots. [00:19:28] Speaker B: You can't. [00:19:29] Speaker A: So what is something you would trial as a musical or musician based? [00:19:34] Speaker B: Cool. This immediately comes to mind because we were just talking about it. If you're a musician, trialing, adding some form of battling into what you're doing matches and here really trialing, different ways of doing it, you could just go on. So when we're talking about musicians, we could be talking about DJs, performers, solo performers, singers or the whole lot. [00:19:58] Speaker A: Karaoke performers. [00:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:00] Speaker A: I want to say machine because I want a karaoke machine so bad. [00:20:04] Speaker B: We nearly had one at the last meetup. [00:20:06] Speaker A: I know. [00:20:07] Speaker B: Hands up for karaoke machine at the next meetup. [00:20:09] Speaker A: Yes. Let us know in bluepro vote there. [00:20:14] Speaker B: I would have them trial or recommend they trial matches, but do it in different ways. And this is part of building your law and allowing people in. So doesn't really matter what kind of musician you are, in our opinion, with this. I think your best shot at gaining the audience and understanding you, buying into you, is them seeing a different side to you. [00:20:37] Speaker A: I want to say if you want to get a live example of this, and the first thing that comes to my mind when we talk about this is sweet lizzie project because they were one of the first straight up musicians that I saw battling. And the way they do it is really fun. It's very interactive with their. They have a great community. [00:20:54] Speaker B: Yeah, great example of building community. But it reminds me of last Friday's panel with Monita Saucy and Hazel Vixen. And they were talking about the importance of building community. And one of the monitor talked, I thought, really well about how important it was for her to remember important things about people within her community. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Right. Exactly. Like things that they were talking about in the chat and remembering those things and then asking them about them later. Yeah. [00:21:23] Speaker B: Sweet Lizzie does that very well. They're a great example of trial and pivoting. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Okay, so now it's your turn. [00:21:29] Speaker B: Okay, I'm going to do. Let's do ASMR. [00:21:32] Speaker A: I love so most ASMRs at night because that's when a lot of people are the most active. They are. So I think maybe trying to do a coffee morning, like doing a morning stream with coffee, and maybe not doing necessarily the whole show that you normally do, but doing some ASMR with things that you have for your coffee, kind. [00:21:53] Speaker B: Of like ASMR light, but the audience is getting to know you a little more. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, here's my coffee mug. Wait, here's my coffee mug. Right. [00:22:03] Speaker B: And it's like iced coffee. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Using the stuff that's around you to create ASMR, but having coffee. And it's themed because it's morning and it's a new time slot, too. So that's two things doing different. [00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah, you could really play with lots of different styles within that as well. All right, how about natural or nature? ASmr. And this is our trial time, our 30% time. Maybe sometime you could explore doing something outside. [00:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:32] Speaker B: And again, it's like kind of ASMR light, but the purpose is also that people getting to know you like a. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Different side of you. [00:22:38] Speaker B: So is it my turn to ask a question? [00:22:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:41] Speaker B: Okay. My niche is gamer. [00:22:44] Speaker A: Ooh, Gamer. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Currently a difficult thing to do on TikTok. [00:22:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I was just sitting there thinking of how I would play my tears of the kingdom if I was a streamer, because that's what I would be doing if I was gamer and how I would pivot or trial something. I think lifestyle, maybe. Yeah, the same. Like, just taking a break from the actual game itself and doing something a little different just to let people know a little bit more about me. [00:23:08] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I think someone who's done that, Chris Netzel is a great example of a pure gamer who tried something different. Actually, he was trialing it in his kind of 30% time. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Yeah, he was. [00:23:18] Speaker B: He found that it worked so well, and he does a lot of ghost hunting content, which is really entertaining because himself, he was an entertaining gamer streamer, which I think a lot of the gamers are so entertaining. And, like, he removed the gaming part of it. [00:23:36] Speaker A: He's actually getting ready to trial something new, which I'm not talking about. But if you want to know, check out the panel this Friday. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Yeah, he's on Friday. Panel upcoming. So you can listen to those live on Friday, or you can listen to them again. We record them and drop them. But, yeah, if you want to hear more about Chris Netson, he is our panel guest. I guess that's time we'll wrap up now. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Thanks for hanging out with us for a little while, talking about trial and pivoting. [00:24:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we had a great time with you this wonderful Tuesday. [00:24:07] Speaker B: Wow. You just went from just chatting into song. [00:24:11] Speaker A: I know. Well, the music started, and I couldn't help myself. [00:24:13] Speaker B: We do really appreciate your comments and questions that we get in. I do now know what care Bear? I am. [00:24:20] Speaker A: Okay, let's hear it. [00:24:22] Speaker B: I apparently am. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:24:25] Speaker B: Thank you. Hazel wrote in about. [00:24:27] Speaker A: Is there a description of what? [00:24:29] Speaker B: No. [00:24:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:24:31] Speaker B: No. [00:24:33] Speaker A: You are a fun shine bear. You really are. Thank you. Who is that? Hazel? [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm going to go and Google Funshine bear. All right. Before I thumbs up that. I'm just checking. [00:24:43] Speaker A: I love all of your responses, Hazel. They're so funny. They're great. All right, well, everyone have a great afternoon and a great week. And it's the last week of the month. And guess what? We have an extra day this month because it's the leap year. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Check those leaderboards. The leaderboards at the top are hot up. All of the club leagues are really spicy right now. [00:25:03] Speaker A: Yeah, they really are. So stay tuned. Don't forget there's a totally awesome game show this Thursday, the 29th register. Bye.